(Image: Perez Hilton/@katvond, Instagram)
Prior to episode 902 of the Relatable Podcast with Allie Beth Stuckey, I had extremely little knowledge of Kat Von D.
I’ve certainly heard her name in passing as I’ve consumed pop culture news over the years. In recent weeks, for example, I’d seen various headlines reporting on her recent baptism into Christianity. So, indeed, I’ve definitely heard of her.
Yet, I’m embarrassed to admit that I was so unfamiliar with her claims to fame and professional résumé that I initially confused her with the burlesque dancer Dita Von Teese. In my defense, both women do have “Von” in their names; they’re both undeniably gorgeous, fair-skinned brunettes who often rock a bold, red lip; and they are both closely associated with Marilyn Manson.
I must also admit that while news of her baptism was encouraging, being as unfamiliar with her as I was, I didn’t do any additional reading into the matter beyond the headlines and blurbs. Besides, given the trend with celebrity professions of faith, I simply resigned to hold my peace. I just wanted to hope for the best, let time tell the truth, and go on minding my business.
But, if I may make yet another admission, when my YouTube algorithm featured Relatable episode 902 in my “Recommended” feed, I felt almost compelled to tune in.
Allie Beth Stuckey, a Christian with a sizable influence in conservative Christian media, was sitting down with Kat Von D!
If Allie was chatting with her, I figured surely she’d already vetted Kat and given her a faithful Berean’s stamp of approval.
So I reasoned it was finally time I learned about who Kat is - or, perhaps I should say who she once was - and, most importantly, how she became a new creation in Christ Jesus.
So, I tuned in.
Their discussion was a friendly one from beginning to end. But it was the beginning and the end of their discussion, in particular, that stuck out to me most.
From the beginning of their discussion, I learned that the two women have a budding friendship, which Kat initiated a few months back. Kat, who shares that she had become a Christian about two years before her baptism in October 2023, has been tuning in to the Relatable Podcast for some time, and she admits she is an avid follower of Allie on Instagram. But it was Allie’s debate with George Farmer on Protestantism vs Catholicism, hosted by Farmer’s wife Candace Owens, that led to Kat sending Allie a DM. They’d enjoy a back and forth of direct-messaging and, at some point, Allie would recommend that Kat purchase an ESV study bible to help Kat explore some of her questions about the Christian faith. Kat readily followed up on Allie’s recommendation.
With their newfound friendship, neither wanted the other to feel used, so to speak, by having Kat appear on Relatable as a guest. Yet, they each thought it would be a great idea to use Allie’s platform to publicize Kat’s testimony. Both women were initially hesitant to make it happen, but Kat got the ball rolling when she reached out to Allie to formally request to be on the show.
“The reason I wanted to come talk to you is because I just assumed that a majority of your followers might not know who I am,” Kat told Allie. “I love that you have a large, Christian/faith-based following, and that’s who I want to talk to right now versus talking to my usual fans that I always talk to,” she continued.
So, I listened.
Kat Von D got baptized, but…
(Image: Relatable Podcast/YouTube)
…What Does kat Believe about Jesus?
Now having listened and re-listened to the full interview, I have one more confession: I’m still not clear on what Kat was hoping to convey that required an exclusively or mostly Christian audience.
I listened as Allie guided her through questions about her background, her rise to fame, and her overall faith journey leading up to her baptism. Yet, unfortunately, I didn’t hear anything in particular about Christ or how He drew her to saving faith in Him.
In her defense, I did hear her say, “I just want Jesus”, “I’m on fire for Jesus”, and she said that she’d given her heart to Jesus. But I was curious to know what she believed about Jesus. I didn’t hear a testimony that suggested she’d heard and believed the Gospel that saves, so I was curious to know if she’d placed her faith in Jesus as He reveals Himself in Scripture, or “another Jesus” (2 Corinthians 11:4).
Hoping to get clarity on her testimony elsewhere, I decided to finally dig into those various headlines I’d originally glossed over. They all pretty much led me to this instagram reel, which Kat made in response to the backlash she’d received about her baptism video.
In it, she stated, “...to me, my baptism was a public demonstration of where I stand with my faith, and basically letting people know that I’m not ashamed.”
Not ashamed of what? Not ashamed of Whom?
Kat does not go on to detail these particulars, but she does use the majority of the reel to politely rebuke her baptism detractors, many of whom she stated were Christians. She seemed to keep that same energy during her time with Allie. The most I heard that might explain her goal in speaking with Allie’s audience was to address and silence any criticisms from “mean Christians”.
To her point, there are many people out there who claim to bear Christ’s name who are downright mean and nasty on social media. Such individuals are partly why I decided to step away from social media, so I totally get her gripe. Nevertheless, there is a Biblical charge for Christians to test one’s profession of faith - though it must be via God’s word, and it mustn’t be done hypocritically or harshly (Matthew 7:15-20; 1 John 4:1). Knowing this, if the expectation is that the Saints not examine her profession of faith, that’s not a going to occur. Though, again, any judgments made shouldn’t be hypocritical or harsh.
Kat went to Relatable specifically to ask Allie’s Christian audience to lend her our ears. To the Christian audience members with “ears to hear” (a.k.a. discernment), her descriptions and responses about her faith “journey” seemed hollow, even if sincere. We didn’t listen for anything that tickled our ears nor did we expect to hear anything theologically robust. We did not care to hear catch phrases (“Christianese”) nor were we demanding to hear quotations of entire Bible passages. We were just looking to hear something consistent with Scripture - something that speaks to how she came to recognize her sin and her need for Christ. We were listening for a basic understanding and articulation of the Gospel.
That was not present in Kat’s discussion with Allie, not even at the very end of the interview when Allie seemed to softball Kat an optimal opportunity to share the hope she has in Christ. If we have sanctified Christ in our hearts, we will always be prepared to give an answer when asked the reason for our hope (1 Peter 3:15). That’s not an opinion, that’s God’s truth, so it applies to Christians at every stage of sanctification.
Allie: What message would you give someone who is watching this, who, maybe they’re in the position that, “I want to believe God is real, but there are things holding me back” - whether it’s their past, or whether it’s who they are now, or whether it’s they don’t like what they see from Christians - it’s just not attractive to them. What would you tell that person?
Kat: I’m not good at giving these kinds of messages out or giving advice.
Allie: What would you have told yourself?
Kat: I think what’s exciting, to me…I loved researching the historical aspect of the Bible because then you just start seeing actual truths…like, there’s so much evidence that is so undeniable that is so cool. That’s the part when I was just like, ‘This isn’t just about blind faith…I just believe because this is what my parents believe.’ There’s actual evidence and information that is, like, so inspiring and exciting. So…when you gifted me the idea of getting that Bible, it really helped me out because a women’s Bible study I go to on Tuesdays at my church… we’re a little, like - not ‘the blind leading the blind’, but we’re all figuring it out together, you know? So, it’s like…you know…I don’t know what the advice is. I got really lucky with a pastor that has a doctorate in theology and is very knowledgeable, and I can ask certain questions, and we can talk about it - and he’s opened my mind to certain things. And I don’t know how to tell people how to find that, you know?
I transcribed this portion of their exchange to offer the full context of her response, not to mock Kat in any way. Anyone who has suffered through even five minutes of my podcast knows I am not the most eloquent speaker off the cuff, especially not during live recordings. But what I do know is where we are weak, the Lord empowers us for His glory. I know His grace is sufficient for us (2 Corinthians 12:9). And I know that the Holy Spirit tells us what to say when opportunities to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ are presented (Matthew 10:19). If one is saved, he or she might fumble such opportunities if he or she is ashamed of the Gospel. Though, many who fumble these opportunities do so most likely because they just don’t know or understand the Gospel.
I gleaned from Kat’s response that she may be in the latter category. There were moments in her response that suggest she may have an intellectual appreciation for the Bible, but, respectfully, I found her overall response to be incoherent and indicative of an extremely limited, if any, spiritual understanding of its content. Her approach to God’s word seems to be for head knowledge, which the Bible does provide. But, for the regenerate Christian, it is ultimately our source of spiritual nourishment and transformation.
So, yes, Kat Von D got baptized, but…
…KAT MUST BE EXAMINED
When one is seeking membership into a local, Bible-believing, Gospel-preaching church, discerning Christians hope to hear a credible testimony of salvation. The same is true when we encounter anyone who professes to be a member of the Body. Outward signs of repentance are great! Please don’t misunderstand me. But in these last days, the Lord has warned us to test every spirit because there are many deceivers coming with “signs and lying wonders”. As such, it is incumbent upon us to examine whether one’s outward signs and profession of faith are consistent, and that they align with Scripture.
This isn’t about being unduly judgmental, for we must examine even ourselves regularly to see if we are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). We must watch our life and our doctrine closely (1 Timothy 4:16). Indeed, we must also beware of, examine and righteously judge the fruit of others who claim to come in Christ’s name (Matthew 7:15-20; Matthew 24:4-5). We do this not to condemn, but to obey Christ in contending for the faith and protecting the Church from deception (Jude 1:3-4; Colossians 2:1-5). We must be as wise as serpents, but as harmless as doves (Matthew 10:16).
Kat may have shared a perfectly sound testimony with her Pastor prior to her baptism. BUT we weren’t there, and since she is now also proclaiming her faith before the universal body of Believers, we, too, are charged to vet her testimony. It is also reasonable to do this understanding her level of influence over millions of souls. If her understanding of Jesus or Christianity isn’t consistent with Scripture, she would certainly influence her millions of followers to embrace similar inconsistencies. So, as “mean” as I may be coming across to some for even daring to question her profession, the stakes are just too high to not do so.
Again, I am not negating the reality that there are unduly “judgmental Christians” running about making unfair and unfounded (aka “unrighteousness”) judgments about her baptism. Yet, the reality is a large part of being in Christ is to judge everything according to His Word, and that includes our righteous judgment of one another (Matthew 7:1-4; 2 Timothy 4:2). The Word is our standard, and as the Word exposes darkness, it naturally follows that many in this fallen world will be offended when judged by it - even when the judgment comes with gentleness and respect.
“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ” (1 Corinthians 2:14-16).
“For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?” (1 Corinthians 5:12).
Now that Kat has publicly professed to be “inside” the Church, and as she has sought out an influential Christian to help her address Christians in particular, she has exposed herself to even more judgment. She has to reasonably expect to now be judged as a Christian and judged by Christians, especially as someone in the public eye.
She must also be prepared to represent Christ daily, no matter the criticisms (due or undue) that come her way.
“If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow Me” ~ Luke 9:23
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me” ~ Galatians 2:20.
While she noted in her Instagram reel that her baptism is evidence that she is “not ashamed”, almost in the same breath she told everyone watching that we should not expect her to become “a poster child for Christianity” because that’s “never going to happen”. Perhaps that was just the “baby Christian” naiveté speaking. However, Biblically-speaking, her sentiments are contradictory and would be described as doublespeak or double-mindedness (Proverbs 18:8; James 1:8).
Unfortunately, though not surprisingly, many professing Christians online who’ve heard Kat’s unclear, contradictory or superficial rhetoric about her faith have concluded that we just need to give her the “benefit of the doubt”. They believe we should just take her at HER word that she is a Christian.
Yet, Scripture never tells us to give anyone the “benefit of the doubt”, but to test EVERY spirit (that includes new converts and seasoned Saints). Besides, if being vetted and NOT automatically given “the benefit of the doubt” was good enough for the Apostle Paul, certainly it should be good enough for the rest of us, including Kat and any other celebrity who professes Christ.
Paul immediately preached the Gospel as a new convert, but even he wasn’t blindly received by the disciples when he first came to them.They weren’t there to hear him preach, and Paul didn’t have the best track record with Christians, so Barnabus, who had heard Paul preaching boldly in the name of Jesus at Damascus, had to vouch for him (Acts 9:28). The Bereans didn’t give Paul “the benefit of the doubt” and blindly receive the things he said. While they were eager hearers, they still tested his words through the Word daily (Acts 17:11). And, of course, Paul proved himself solid as he consistently went about “preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence” (Acts 28:31).
My point is there’s nothing in Scripture to suggest we owe nor are we commanded to grant a newly professing Christian a blind “benefit of the doubt”. If anything, Scripture proves that even a new convert comes in with an immediate ability to proclaim the One who saved him. The Holy Spirit, who is our helper, is more than able to help “baby Christians” speak in accordance with Scripture about their faith. Certainly, they aren’t yet qualified to be overseers, and their vocabulary and knowledge of the deeper mysteries of various doctrines are still in progress, but they should know and be able to articulate the fundamentals. They should have a clearly discernible foundation from which they will continue to grow. They should be able to articulate the message that saved them!
Not only was Kat unable to articulate her faith during her talk with Allie, she made it crystal clear that she would never discuss her faith publicly elsewhere. And though she seemed pretty confident in defending Marilyn Manson, whom she described as a misunderstood “good guy”, she struggled to proclaim the goodness of Christ.
To be fair to Kat, she did say that she would share her faith with others privately if asked. But my concern remains: what faith, exactly, would she be sharing?
When Allie asked Kat why she sought to join a Baptist church, for example, Kat’s response was, “Well, when I look at the breakdown of their approach to Scripture, it just - like - aligns with what I feel.”
But what is that, exactly?
Kat didn’t expound, and, unfortunately, Allie didn’t encourage her to do so.
Kat instead came back to laud the Baptist church for offering her the “traditionalism” she was looking for during worship. She went on to speak about how her local church is offering her what she was looking for. This sentiment isn’t necessarily a damnable one, by the way. It just didn’t circle back to actually answer Allie’s question or detail how their “approach to Scripture” aligns with what she believes.
Kat Von D got baptized, but I have some concerns.
Not that my concerns should necessarily matter to her, but as someone in the audience of individuals she leveraged Allie’s platform to address, I am within my right to examine what she had to say and offer my conclusions for other Christians to consider.
(Image: Relatable Podcast/YouTube; Christian Post)
I Said all of This to Say…
If I’m to join the professing Christians who’ve readily received Kat as a sister in Christ, I would love to better understand what she believes. Unfortunately, episode 902 of the Relatable Podcast did not help me come to that understanding.
But here’s the knowledge it did provide me: I now know that Kat Von D and Dita Von Teese are NOT the same person. I came to learn that Kat is a fellow 80s baby! (Shout out!) Moreover, I learned Kat was raised Seventh Day Adventist (SDA is not Biblical Christianity, but learning this tid bid does give context for her faith background and understanding of Christianity).
I learned Kat rose to fame as a tattoo artist in the mid-2000s. I learned Kat wouldn’t describe herself as a witch, but she admits to having practiced witchcraft and being into new-age/occultism for many years. I learned Kat began to question her political beliefs during the Covid pandemic and BLM’s uprising, and these questions eventually sparked a “spiritual journey”. I learned this spiritual journey led Kat to discard her books on the occult in 2020. I learned Kat sold her LA home, closed down her tattoo shop and moved to Vevay, Indiana in 2021.
Finally, I learned Kat got baptized in a local Indiana baptist church in October 2023, and has displayed many other encouraging outward signs that appear to suggest repentance. I pray those outward changes continue. And yet Jesus said we aren’t to judge merely according to appearances but according to righteous judgment (John 7:24). That judgment is according to Scripture, and it entails an examination of our lives and doctrine.
So let God be true, and every man a liar, for He has said that “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks” (Luke 6:45). In the limited press she’s done and social media posts she’s made since publicizing her baptism video, nowhere does Kat proclaim the Gospel or Christ and Him crucified. Nowhere does she clearly and specifically articulate her faith in Him beyond superficial buzzwords (ie; “I’m on fire for Jesus”). Nowhere does she publicly present that she knows/understands into what she was baptized. If I am incorrect in this assessment, I am open to being corrected.
Moreover, according to the testimony she shared on Relatable, Kat didn’t become a Christian in 2022 - “a year before her baptism”, as many sources have reported. Kat told Allie she became a Christian the year before she threw out her occult books, which her Instagram post suggests she did in July 2022. This means she’s been a professing Christian since 2021, so one could wonder if the label “baby Christian” still applies, and if the excuses for where she is in her “process” are warranted. One could also reasonably still wonder how she actually came to Christ. She also shared that she began intently studying the Bible in 2020. That would mean she’s been a Christian for almost three years, and in God’s Word for nearly four years as of the date of this writing!
Perhaps she’s not received proper discipleship during most of this time. Yet, again, if she is converted to Christ, she should at least be able to make a solid proclamation of her foundation in Christ Jesus. If you have heard the Gospel that saves and have believed it, and you are indeed “on fire for Jesus”, you should be willing and able to tell the world about Him. You should be able to share the Gospel that saves when those opportunities arise - in season and out (on a Christian conservative podcast and offline).
Kat Von D got baptized, but I am unable to discern a credible profession of faith at this time. Again, what I think in the grand scheme of things is dust. But since Kat and Allie decided to use Relatable as a means for Kat to “talk to” Christians, that essentially invited me to enter the chat. So, having heard (or not heard) what I have, my honest conclusion is Kat is still in need of the Gospel. I pray someone in her path shares it with her, and that she hears it and receives it.
Nevertheless, if my discernment and assessment in all this is way off and Kat has come to saving faith in Jesus Christ, I will stand corrected. If this be the case, I also pray that Allie continues to encourage and disciple Kat behind the scenes. Furthermore, I pray Kat’s pastor and church family go on to equip her with sound doctrine and Biblical fellowship that she grows in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, and that she bears much good fruit.
In the meantime, I’ll be hoping for the best, trusting God will be glorified, and going back to minding my business.
CORRECTION: An earlier version of this article stated that Kat threw out her occult books in 2020 and noted that this would mean she became a Christian in 2019. This was based on her discussion with Allie Beth Stuckey at he beginning of the segment “How Kat Came to Christ” (around 32:47 into the show). Allie mentioned that Kat made her post on throwing out her occult books in 2020. Kat acknowledge this and went on to state that she’d become a Christian a year before that. However, it has come to my attention that Kat actually threw out her occult books in 2022, as her Instagram post announcing that she’d discarded those books was posted on July 21, 2022. If Kat became a Christian a year before this event, that means she became a Christian in 2021. These are the dates now reflected in the article.